Going Geothermal Part 2: Finding the right geothermal contractor

To understand what to look for in a geothermal contractor (or what some might call an installer) you first need to understand how many residential HVAC (Heating, Ventilating, & Air Conditioning) contractors work.  As a residential contractor you would spend a good part of your time visiting homes and giving free estimates for your services (which typically include replacing furnaces & air conditioners).  To make the process more efficient most contractors use rules of thumb to determine the heating and cooling loads of your house and therefore size your furnace and/or air conditioner.  And why wouldn’t they when for +30 years all they’ve had to choose from is a handful of unit sizes anyway.  As long as you’re in the ballpark that’s all that matters.  If you’re unsure pick the larger size.  Well that works fine for furnaces & air conditioners where the difference in cost between unit sizes is minimal.  (Granted it’s not good to have things oversized for your future energy bills but that’s another discussion.)  But when it comes to geothermal systems where the cost difference between a 3 ton system and a 4 ton system can be anywhere from $2,000-$5,000 that makes a big difference!

So what is a homeowner to do?  Well first try to do your research and find the most throual HVAC contractor you can.  Ask them how they calculate your homes heating and cooling loads.  Do they use rules of thumb or do they actually calculate them out?  Keep in mind that “rules of thumb” come in many shapes and sizes.  Some rules of thumb are based solely on the square feet of your home while others take into account how much roof and window area your house has.  So as a homeowner your best bet is to just make sure your contractor does a Manual J of your house.  A Manual J is the widely accepted calculation used to determine residential heating and cooling loads.

Side Note: As a mechanical engineer that designs HVAC system for commercial buildings I’m not a big fan of the Manual J since it is less accurate than what we do commercially.  But since it is the standard residentially it’s probably all you’re find contractors use.  Don’t worry in Part 3 I’ll show you how to accurately calculate your own heating and cooling loads.

A good starting point to look for contractors in your areas is to see what contractors are members of your local and national geothermal associations.  The International Ground Source Heat Pump Association is a great source.  Members of this group have taken one or more classes through the association.  Many states also have state groups.  For my fellow Wisconsin readers here’s our state’s association.  Search around!  You may find local groups that do more than recommend contractors to you.  Some organize tours of homes or building that have installed geothermal systems while others have elaborate displays for people willing to learn.  Along the same lines ask around and see if anyone has any recommendations for a mechanical contractor.  But keep in mind that a company that came high recommended by someone with a typical split system may not be good at installing geothermal systems.  And don’t forget to also check out the Better Business Bureau to see how potential contractors compare.

Like most quotes people get make sure you get more than one.  In our experience we found the prices we were quoted to vary a lot from contractor to contractor.  This is due in part to how relatively uncommon residential geothermal systems have been for the last 20 years.  But when tax credit limit of $2000 was removed geothermal systems became a hot ticket item.  What resulted, at least in my area anyway, is that a lot of mechanical contractors have dabbled in installing geothermal systems but few have a lot of experience with them.  Of course ideally you would like to hire someone with a lot of geothermal experience but there may not be anyone in your area.  Instead you might have a number of people with moderate experience levels so how do you choose?  Well the best I can say is do your research and ask a lot of questions.

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Finally, I thought I’d share with you our contractor picking experience.  We had 5 contractors give us quotes.

Contractor 1 has been working on expanding their geothermal department.  They’ve investing lots of money on radio advertisements, fancy websites, custom designed hybrid cars, and even flashy embroidered shirts stating they are the industry leader in geothermal for our area.  As a result they have installed many geothermal systems particularly in the new construction McMansions that were built before the economy turned.  Most people don’t even interview anyone else when they are looking to install their geothermal systems.  They sound great don’t they?  Well when they came to our house to survey we weren’t too pleased with their cocky attitude and the way they treat their clients as if they are stupid.  I could tell in my grilling interview that they weren’t used to dealing with clients who actually knew what they were talking about.  Then we got their quote and were blown away.  They were $9,000 more than the other 4 contractors we interviewed (who were all in very close price range)!  Turns out they used some moderate level rules of thumb to determine our heating & cooling loads.  They said we needed an 8 ton unit where we really only need somewhere between a 4-5 ton.  Classic HVAC oversizing!  On top of that I didn’t like the brand of heat pump they used (I’ll go through these in Part 4) so we crossed them off our list.

Contractor 2 wasn’t a part of any of the geothermal associations I mentioned above but came high recommended to us from someone with a conventional system.  In meeting them Flannel Man was not impressed with their lack of knowledge and when I questioned them about how they came up with our heating & cooling loads they admitted they used rules of thumb.  One more off the list.

Contractor 3 had only 4 geothermal projects under their belt and their quote was a few grand more than Contractor 4 & 5’s bid so we came off our list too.

Contractor 4 specializes in radiant floor systems but also do heat pumps.  They seemed very educated about geothermal systems.  They had installed between 10-12 geothermal systems.  Both Contractor 4 & 5 used one of the brand of heat pumps I like.

Contractor 5 is a family based company that installs more traditional furnace/air side systems than Contractor4.  They had installed a dozen geothermal systems but most of them were horizontal loops (we needed a vertical loop).  They also had a leg up on the competition because they used a software in addition to their hand heating/cooling calculations to size the geothermal loop.  The software was able to tell me our expected electric bills, savings with a desuperheater, and savings versus our current system.  A very handy tool!

It was between Contractor 4 & 5 but in the end we went with Contractor 5 because we felt they were better able to answer my questions and were fast to respond.

Moral of the story: Shop around or you could end up with the pricey Contractor 1.

In fact a few days after we signed our contract with Contractor 5 we saw a house in town was installing a geothermal system with Contractor 1 (we knew this because they put up flashy signs of course).  It took all I had to not go knock on their door and tell them our experience with them but they were already in the middle of drilling so it wouldn’t have done much good.  We found out later that the couple had in fact not gotten quotes from anyone but Contractor 1!

For those of you who made it to the end of this post you have the reward of seeing a sneak peak of our heat pump introduced by our rescue dog Sophie:

Going Geothermal Part 1: How A Geothermal System Works

I’m not going to go into too much detail about this because there are so many websites that cover this better than I ever could (which I have listed below).

Basically a geothermal system is made up of a heat pump, ground loop(s), and either ductwork or a radiant system to heat/cool your house.  A heat pump is just a refrigerator that can reverse between heating and cooling.  If the heat pump is connected to ductwork like a furnace would be it will be able to both heat and cool the air as it is blown over the heat pump’s coil.  If the heat pump is connected to a radiant floor or baseboard system it acts as a boiler by creating hot water but it can’t provide cooling or dehumidify the air.

The heat pump is connected to an underground loop filled with water or a water-refrigerant mixture via a heat exchanger.  A common misconception is that the water/refrigerant mixture in the ground loop is what actually runs through the heat pump but that is not the case.  They are completely separate loops that don’t mix.  Ground loops can come in many styles (which I’ll go through in Part 4) but the most common style today is a vertical bore closed loop system.  The whole system works off the fact that below the surface the Earth’s temperature stays relatively constant.  Because of this the ground loop is able to absorb or reject heat to the Earth.  Even though the temperature difference between the ground and the water/refrigerant mixture might be small heat will still transfer.

Source: www.geo4va.vt.edu

 

 

Below is a list of websites & a helpful video you can go to for more information on how a geothermal system works:

http://www.geo4va.vt.edu/A1/A1.htm

http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/geothermal/geothermal.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/how_your_house_works/4331401.html

http://www.geocomfort.com/geothermal-technology

Going Geothermal: An Eight Part Mini-Series

As I mentioned in my last post we’re converting our house from a traditional fuel oil furnace to a sustainable geothermal ground source heat pump. But instead of just telling you about our system I want to go into depth and do a series of posts about everything you need to know as a home owner if you’re considering going geothermal. When I was researching residential geothermal systems I was disappointed in the quality of info out there about geothermal systems. Yes, there is lots of info about geothermal systems but almost all of it is describing how ground loops work. Go ahead and Google “geothermal systems” you’ll find pretty graphics of cold water/refrigerant mixtures going into the ground and hot water/refrigerant coming out. Once you wrap your head around the concept of getting heating and cooling from the Earth is that all you need to know as a home owner? The answer is NO.
In an effort to help inform others I’m going to write an 8 part mini-series from my point of view as a homeowner and HVAC engineer. I’ll give you every question you need to ask your contractor and calculations you can do to determine the true cost of going geothermal. If you’ve ever considered installing a geothermal system you’ll want to read this!

  • Part 1: How a geothermal system works
  • Part 2: Finding the right geothermal contractor
  • Part 3: Calculating residential heating and cooling loads
  • Part 4: Geothermal loop designs
  • Part 5: Geothermal heat pumps, desuperheaters, & split systems
  • Part 6: The true cost of a geothermal system
  • Part 7: Geothermal installation
  • Part 8: Conclusion

To follow the series just follow my blog or click on the new “going geothermal” button I created on the right menu bar.

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Going Geothermal!

After weeks of getting quotes, tons of research, doing my own personal heating and cooling loads for our house, and checking with our tax adviser we’re signing a geothermal contract this week!!! As an HVAC engineer who specializes in energy efficient design and sustainability I’m so excited to apply my large scale commercial knowledge to my very own home. I could go on and on (and I probably will anyway) but here is the very basics:

  • We need a new furnace and condensing unit and though they might last us one more year we’d rather start saving money now
  • We really want to get rid of the huge oil tank in our basement and stop sucking on the teet of the couple fuel oil providers in our area (it’s very uncommon in our area)
  • We live in the country with no natural gas access
  • Previous home owner spent roughly $6,000 per year for heating and $600 for cooling
  • After re-insulating the attic, replacing a patio door that was rotted into an open position, installing plastic shrink wrap over every window, and keeping the temperature low last year we spent $2200 on heating and $225 on cooling
  • Projected cost for heating & cooling our house with geothermal is $1300 for heating and $51 for cooling
Vertical Loop System from ClimateMaster.com

Vertical Loop System from ClimateMaster.com

The Garage Doors Are In

We have a two car garage! No more walking across the yard in 3 feet of snow to get to shed/detached garage.

They were installed Monday:

Before:

After:

Never mind the fugly awnings. They used to attach where the new door is so we need to figure out a way to hang them back up without putting holes in our expensive new trim.

Before:

After:

They are so beautiful. The wood grain adds so much depth and texture where there was previously a white box.

Both Flannel Man and I think the new doors visually look bigger than the old white one. For now they don’t really go that great with the old gray siding but someday we’ll have tan rock and light olive siding so they’ll look even better then. Aw someday…but for now we’re enjoying our first renovation to make a big visual impact.

Stay tuned on a post about cutting in the second garage door.

We Finally Found Our Garage Doors!

You know you’re a remodeler when you get excited about garage doors. But after 3 months of searching and 2 months of waiting we almost have our doors!

Our number one requirement in a garage door was a high R value. Because our garage is actually part of our basement it is surrounded by space we heat and cool. Our dining room is one of the coldest rooms in our house in the winter and that is due to the fact that it’s directly over our garage. The garage also has two doors that lead to the interior and though they are sealed they still transfer a lot of air between the spaces. When we started looking into getting new garage doors we were surprised to realize that it is common to have little to no insulation in garage doors. While garages aren’t a conditioned space they can provide a nice buffer between your home and the outside so why wouldn’t you insulate them as much as possible? Granted we do live in an area that gets to be -10°F or lower in the winter so we take every step we can to insulate our house. Since the doors face south we also wanted them to have windows to provide light to the space so of course we wanted insulated windows also.

Our second requirement was looks. When you drive up to our house all you see is our garage door (soon to be doors) and our dining room windows. You can’t even see our front door. So having attractive and inviting garage doors was important to us. Originally, we were going to get a standard white door with some windows. Sounds nice enough right? But then I started looking online at house exteriors and I soon realized that I was drawn to houses that had a contrast between the garage door color and the exterior trim. Since we have and want to stay with white trim I wanted to spice things up and go with a dark garage door. But picking a color now for our garage doors when we don’t even have our future siding colors picked seemed like a color mishap waiting to happen. We do know that we both want dark wood front and possibly side doors so we thought it would be easiest to coordinate with that.

But real wood doors were not an option for us because our last requirement was that the doors were low maintenance. We didn’t want to have to stain a door every other year or try to prevent rotting and cracking so we needed a steel door. So the search was on for a well insulated, attractive steel garage door painted to look like wood that had windows…

After doing some searching I found the perfect door. There aren’t many companies that make steel doors that are painted to look like wood. I was so excited I called to get some quotes only to find out they don’t make the door in our size! Because our garage is on the same level with our basement it is much shorter than the standard garage of today. We need two single doors that are 9 feet wide and 6.5 feet tall and that short height isn’t very common anymore. So we got quotes from every other option that would fit our door. But no door met all of our requirements. We were bummed and decided to wait on buying garage doors for a while (this was back in April).

Then one day in June we got “the call” from one of the garage door installers we had gotten a quote from. In response to customer complaints (one of which was probably us) Clopay had decided to start manufacturing 6 ½ foot tall doors in their Gallery style! They were going to start manufacturing them in mid-July so we ordered two right away. Our new doors will be installed next Monday! Here are some pictures of Clopay’s Gallery collection:

Gallery Collection from Clopay

source: http://www.clopaydoor.com/gallerysteel.aspx

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source: http://h2hinstall.com/Store/V11/Products.aspx?ProductId=143&CategoryId=3

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source: http://www.clopaydoor.com/show-before-and-after.aspx?entryid=2

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source:http://www.clopaydoor.com/show-before-and-after.aspx?entryid=4

Our door’s specs in case anyone is looking to get something similar:

  • Two 9’ x 6.5’doors
  • R-value = 17
  • Insulated glass windows
  • Dark Oak Ultra Grain paint
  • Short grooved panel design
  • Four plain square windows per door (no grilles)
  • Semi-carriage style appearance
  • Standard spade lift handles

I’ll update with before and after pictures as soon as they are in so stay tuned.

2008 Acomplishments & 2009 Goals

I’ve been a bad, bad blogger.  Sorry life is busy.  I have a lot of catching up to do.

Considering that we bought our house in May I feel that we accomplished quite a bit in 2008.  We didn’t get everything done we had planned to do because we changed our priorities.  Instead of worrying about cosmetic things like painting we focused on winterizing our home for the harsh Wisconsin winter.  Here’s what we did in 2008:

All our hard work is paying off too.  We’re on track to use less than 1/2 of the energy the previous owner used last winter at 1/4 of the cost!  (More about that later.)

We’ve put together a master plan for DIY remodeling our entire house and well…it’s a 7 year plan.  Mainly because we’re paying for everything as we go and trying to avoid taking out a HELOC (but we may have to for the kitchen remodel but that is one of the last things we plan to do so we’ll have to see what we have saved up by then).  Our plan is to get the guts of the house repaired first and then go on to pretty cosmetic stuff later (besides paint that is).  So here’s our goals for 2009:

  • Install seamless gutters with Gutter Glove
  • Dig in underground drains for the downspouts
  • Paint and prime the entire house, this includes the ceilings because we have water stains in almost every room
  • Do some basic landscaping, define flower beds and start planting
  • Make a master landscaping plan for the future, from my last calculations we have nearly 20 flower beds/planting areas around the property
  • Create a yard for our dog Sophie?, clear out brush and install temporary fencing, we have to wait for spring to see if this is even possible there or if the ground is too marshy
  • Cut the second garage door back in
  • Install two new garage doors and openers
  • Figure out how to fix the draining issues in the garage
  • Install a new propane tank
  • Remove the old oil tank
  • Install a new top of the line furnace and condensing unit
  • Change the ductwork in the house to be multi-zone
  • Install and program new thermostats
  • Start building the walk-in gun safe
  • Interview architects we may want to work with

So what do you think?  Crazy?  Doable?

We’re off to Canada

For the next 9 days Flannel Man and I will be on a small island in the middle of a lake in Canada. We’ll have no electricity, the water isn’t drinkable, and the nearest town is an hour away. Sounds fun right? On the bright side we’ll have a cabin to sleep in, it will be relaxing and isolated, and there will be a lot of pictures taken. The colors were just amazing the last time I was there. The greens are greener and the blues are bluer; everything is so saturated with color. Here’s some pictures from the one and only time I’ve been up there back in 2005 way before I had my DSLR.

 

 

 

Boys will be boys

Flannel Man loves living in the country especially with the pond. As a boy he spent his free time playing in the creek near his house and catching any wildlife he could find. His favorite animal by far is the turtle. So one afternoon when a turtle decided to crawl onto our yard FM was very excited.

He came running to find me and yelled, “Quick get your shoes on and grab the camera!”

From his level of excitement I would have thought Sean Connery was at our door (FM is a huge James Bond fan). “Why what is it?!?”

“There’s a painted turtle crawling in our yard!”

“Oh, OK.” Damn I wanted to met Sean Connery.

When we got outside FM went into stealth turtle catching mode and quietly snuck up behind it then jumped in for the kill…er the catch. Meanwhile, I couldn’t help but laugh at what I’d just witnessed.

“What? They’re fast when they want to be!” FM asserted.

Look at that smile! He was so excited to catch the first turtle at our new house.

I of course wanted some pictures but the turtle wasn’t cooperating.

He wouldn’t come out of his shell so we set him down and waited…and waited…

Finally we turned him over because according to FM they use their heads to roll over.

Turtles make for interesting series pictures. I could have had 20 pictures that looked like this before he moved again.

Wait…there he goes…

Hey look at that they really do use their heads to roll over! Look how long his neck is!

And check out those feet!

OK, we cheated the poor guy was in the last pose for way too long so we helped him over. What can I say we’re suckers for turtles.

We decided it would take him forever to get back to the pond so we wanted to put him back in the pond.

But before he’d let him go FM decided he might want to go on a little ride. Can you tell FM is a kid at heart?

(Notice how our pond is now completely covered in duckweed.)

What turtle doesn’t like to do barrel rolls?

Can you hear the airplane noises? FM has had 27 years to perfect them. I always told him he should be one of those sound effect guys he can do all the classics; airplanes, gunshots, fast cars, and trains.

FM finally put the turtle back in the duckweed filled pond where it happily swam off. Probably never to return again having learned his lesson of what happens when he gets within FM’s reach.

The next day FM comes to the door with these two turtles…

and a toad. It’s reptile heaven over here!

FM said, “This is a good toad.”

“Why is it a good toad?” I asked.

“Because he hasn’t peed on me yet.”

Apparently that’s one of the things they do for self defense.

 

***Note: No reptiles were harmed in the making of this post. ***

 

 

I’m A Cripple

And a very busy cripple at that. You see I’ve been on a computer vacation under the doctor’s orders. Yes, the doctor’s orders! I have had signs of carpel tunnel syndrome and tendentious in both wrists for years but with all the long hours I’m putting in for work and my blogging/internet addiction my hands are really acting up. Whereas I used to have numbness and tingling for an hour or two I now have it for days or weeks on end. Then the real pain kicks in when the tendons from my middle and pointer fingers shot pain all the way up my arm to my shoulder. Picking up a glass of water or grabbing the steering wheel driving home has now become difficult.

Carpel tunnel is not uncommon in my family. Both of my parents have had carpel tunnel surgery in one hand and plan to do the other in the future. Both of my sisters have also been diagnosed with carpel tunnel including my 14 year old sister. I guess weak wrists just runs in the family. Last fall I had my first EMG (electromyogram) test where they sent thousands of volts of electricity through my arm only to determine that my carpel tunnel wasn’t bad enough to have surgery. I had the pleasure of having a doctor who had never done the test before and the experienced nurse in the room had to keep reminding him that he should only have to send these painful shocks through my arm once instead of 6 times.

So in addition to taking anti-inflammatory steroids, I’ve done my best at staying off the computer the best I can. The problem with that is (1) I have a huge deadline I’m trying to meet for work and (2) I’m addicted to the internet. I’m working on an a whole building energy model for a 1.3 million sf hospital. It’s the largest energy model anyone in our company has ever done and this is my first energy model using this software. The model is so large it’s pushing the limits of the software and our computers. Last week I had a crash and lost two days worth of work! If I don’t get this model to work and have a 14% energy savings then the $750 million project can’t get LEED certified. Talk about pressure! And of course I have an impossible deadline to meet so I’ve been putting in overtime for 6 weeks now. Last week I put in over 60 hours which certainly doesn’t help my wrist problems. (I know this work babble probably didn’t make any sense but I was thinking of writing a post explaining energy modeling and LEED certification if you’re interested.)

Regarding # 2 yes, I know I’m pathetic but I have no social life. I’m on the internet at some point almost every night. That doctor’s order gave me a lump in my throat. But in my defense I come home to a big empty house every night what am I supposed to do for fun?

So I’m sorry I’ve been so absent.  Hopefully, I can get these wrist issues undercontrol so I can get back to blogging!

 

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This is the story of two twenty something newlyweds who are learning to adjust to life in their first house, a 1973 fixer-upper.